Episode 5: Alastair Driver @ Ali’s Pond Local Nature Reserve, Sonning
“Size matters...”
Professor Alastair Driver, Country Naturalist, lover of mini-beasts and Director of Rewilding Britain
“... it is all part of ‘rewilding our thinking’ as well as land and water...”
Ali Driver is one busy man, and I felt privileged that he gave me several hours of his time late last summer to talk about his journey to becoming the Director of Rewilding Britain, and his views on rewilding in general.
We met in Sonning, near Reading, at a Local Nature Reserve called ‘Ali’s Pond’, near to his home. The nature reserve was named after the man himself for the tireless hours he has put in to creating it. It is a tiny, but lovely, naturally calm and peaceful oasis, perfect to sit for a long interview on a sunny late summer’s day.
As with Tim Smit, this Episode is less about the photos and focuses in what Ali has to say. With a childhood grubbing around the countryside and “chewing dirt”, and 43 years as a nature conservation professional, he has a lot to say, which is why I have split the interview into two separate podcasts.
Ali’s Pond
Life, the universe and rewilding…
In the first half, we talk about his journey and influences with respect to his current role as the ‘Daddy’ (my word, not his) of rewilding in England, and then on to talking about rewilding itself and what it means from Rewilding Britain’s perspective. Although definitions as a rule tend to be technical and a bit dull, Ali manages to make them simple, clear and very understandable.
We go on to talk about the concept of the ‘Trophic cascade’ – see George Monbiot’s book ‘Feral’ for very readable writing about this concept – and again, Ali brings this concept back to its core and explains it well. It brings me to mind of Douglas Adams’s detective Dirk Gently, who depends on “the fundamental interconnectedness of all things”; life is interconnected at levels that we cannot hope to fully understand, but there are great examples out there to help us. One such example is the reintroduction of Wolves (top of the trophic cascade) in to Yellowstone National Park, which you can see out more about at this video clip here.
As exemplified by the quote below, Ali emphasises that we have a long way to go in our aspiration for a more naturally wild, biodiverse and nature-friendly Britain, but we have to make a start, and there are many different ways to bring people on board.
“This is a stepping stone for society – every beaver enclosure you get will win over a few more hearts and minds”
You can access the first part of the interview by clicking the Spotify link below, or by going to your regular podcast provider and searching for “What if you just leave it?”
The photos above show Dog Rose, which is a classic and important - but under-appreciated - hedgerow species, in both its natural and studio contexts. I have done a series of photos like this under the banner ‘overexposed’ to highlight through studio techniques the aesthetic qualities of everyday plants that form the borders to our lives in hedges and field margins.
This links to Ali’s comments about our disconnect from nature, in that we so often don’t see the beauty of what is around us, but we are likely to see it more - and sometimes appreciate it more - in the context of design, say on a greetings card, a mug or a framed photo. For more of the overexposed series, click here.
“Because we’ve become detached from nature, we’ve also become afraid of it”
Why we should all care!
In the second half of the interview I start by asking Ali about the importance of rewilding, and why we – particularly people not connected to the nature conservation or farming world – should care. He talks us through the value to nature and biodiversity, to ‘ecosystem services’ such as flood management. He also talks about health and well-being, the economy, education, and of course climate change - all of which rewilding can benefit.
Climate change mitigation is really becoming a major focus for rewilding and I will come to it again in other interviews. But it is more than just increasing biomass through allowing natural growth, it is about ‘not’ ploughing, it is about mitigation of extreme rainfall through more ‘absorbent’ hillsides, it is about storing the carbon already there, it is about the reduced methane given off by hardier species of cattle grazing more natural vegetation. It seems that rewilding can have a significant impact in respect of climate change and I will be coming back to it.
“We have an ambition of [a rewilded] 1 million hectares by 2100”
He also talks about the bigger picture, such as nature corridors, Nature Recovery Networks and the need for connectivity between land of natural value; “so that species and communities in in each of those two situations can migrate in to each other, if appropriate”.
We end by talking about Rewilding Britain and how it is possible to connect with a wider audience – perhaps currently uninterested – about the concepts involved.
“We need to move people away from the wolves and bears and land abandonment perception of rewilding that has been promoted in the past in the media”
You can access the second part of the interview by clicking the Spotify link below, or by going to your regular podcast provider and searching for “What if you just leave it?”
Some thoughts from me…
The first is about when ‘not’ to do rewilding as opposed to where it is possible. Whatever your views on the current system of agricultural production, and they are many and varied, Ali is saying that we should not be looking to rewild high quality agricultural land, but focus on the more marginal areas.
These area generally requite high input of chemicals in order to be fertile enough to turn a profit, but the amount of food produced from them, and the margins that they make is always going to be disproportionally lower than more inherently fertile land. So if you took them out of their existing regime, allowed nature to recover, with only a few hardy breeds for livestock, the ‘inputs’ - chemical / diesel / manpower become almost zero and the ‘outputs’ – rare breed ‘wild’ meat – is of course much lower, but with almost no input it is still possible to make a margin.
It is, of course, much more complex that I set out here, and subsidy – paying for public good – is probably almost always going to be needed, but this is what is happening at Knepp, and it is an inspiring model. Look out for my Knepp photos and interviews very soon.
Knepp teaser…
A second thought is this issue of perceived exclusivity of rewilding – ‘you can only do it if you are a wealthy landowner’. It is true that you need to own or manage land, but Ali makes it clear that this need not be an exclusive club, and although “size matters”, anyone can make a difference in their own way.
For Rewilding Britain, with limited resources, in order to meet their target of 5% of the UK rewilded, they have to focus on the big landholdings but he talks of what you can do in your garden or on a small scale, which contributes to the restoration of our biodiversity. We also talk a little about Heal Rewilding and their democratic approach to land ownership. I have interviewed Hannah, their Junior Director and will also be putting that podcast out as soon as I can get out and take her photo!
Finally, we get onto the subject of imagery, and Ali says that there is no substitute for a before and after photo. This is of course no use for me now - maybe in 5 years time!! – but it emphasises that people need to see change in order to understand processes. Rewilding is a process, and I need to try and capture change on camera, so watch this space.
“Its not about imposition, it’s about opening the door for people and showing them what it [rewilding] could do”
Newsflash - March 2021
As this interview was some time ago, I wanted to update you with regards some of what Ali said, so he kindly sent me the following details, all of which are great news for Rewilding.
ELMs (Environmental Land Management scheme - to replace Countryside Stewardship)
Nov 2020 - the PM mentioned rewilding in his article on the 10 point plan - see item 9 in the article attached
Dec 2020 - Rewilding was included in the Defra Farming is Changing booklet - a huge step forward!
Jan 2021 - Secretary of State George Eustice, stated in his speech to the Oxford Farming Conference in January, that “the UK government has already announced that it is willing to support rewilding projects………..for those who want to do it, it is a choice that we want to help.”
Rewilding Britain’s ‘Rewilding Network’ (in numbers)
As of March 1st 2021 - Current Rewilding Network membership – 25 medium (250-1500 acres) and large (>1500 acres) scale case studies (member projects) on the map, and 10 developing local networks. We also have 83 smallholding projects (less than 100 acres in size) and 12 small scale projects (100-250 acres) who have signed up the network since it launched on 17 Feb. A total of 1,915 non-landowners have signed up for network updates via email.
Find out more at https://www.rewildingbritain.org.uk/rewilding-network
And finally…
A quote from Lord Goldsmith following a public Q&A after his Green Recovery speech last July:
“[Alastair] has been a fantastic influence on the national debate around rewilding and can take much of the credit for rewilding being more mainstream”
I hope you like the interview. My thanks to Ali, and to you for listening and looking - please sign up to my email list here, and add a comment below if you wish. You can find out more about Ali’s Pond here.
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